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Post by synical on Jun 24, 2008 2:32:18 GMT
As we know, ethics is a large part of philosophy. So to start off the debates, I'll introduce the common yet conrtroversial topic of abortion.
Is it morally sound for abortion to be legal?
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Post by Alter on Jun 24, 2008 10:10:39 GMT
Nay. I think choice is great and all, but the woman CHOSE to get pregnant/not use a rubber etc. Tis what the morning after pill and 1st warning tests are for.
If i go parachuting, i gotta be ready for the `1% risk ima die. and i can't really blame nobody but myself.
rape is a different hting though.
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Post by detox on Jun 24, 2008 16:48:26 GMT
I'm pro life, if you got pregnant, that's punishment for being dumb, every action has consequences. Just cuz someone was dumb is not a reason to take away a potential life for someone.
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Post by Pair...uh...Noya? on Jun 24, 2008 18:05:40 GMT
272,350 women were raped with forced in 2006 and reported the incident to authorities. 1 in every 3 women will become a victim to rape in their life time. Aproxmitly 8 percent of women not on birth control, who are vaginally rapped get pregnant.... That still leaves about, oh... 21,788 rapped women pregnant.
Now... for the sake of keeping our numbers some what together... 4.1 Million babies are born every year...
With 4.1 Million women giving birth, 21,788 of these women should become SPECIAL circumstances. Most women are raped by people they know, friends, dates, etc. The women who are raped by an associate are less likely to contact the authorities, and those who become pregnant are even less likely to do so... The worst part is, only about 6% of rapist will ever spend time behind bars...
These women didn't ask for it, they didn't want.. or risk anything to become pregnant. They didn't do anything stupid. roughly 21,788 women every year are giving birth to children concieved of rape... For these, I think we should allow some gray space on abortion.
I don't agree with it anywhere outside of this context. Not at all. But when sex is forced apon a women, when all the normal lines of defense don't work "oh, they knew what they were doing". You're right, they both understood what was happening, however only one of those people had an oppurtunity to make it stop.
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Post by Alter on Jun 24, 2008 19:44:34 GMT
^solid point.
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Post by ‘ J. Crow ’ on Jun 24, 2008 21:30:43 GMT
its all about choices,
if u want it, get it..
if u dont, dont get it...
pro-choice
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Post by synical on Jun 24, 2008 22:45:03 GMT
Both Detox and Pair-uh-noya have legitimate arguements, but what pair-uh-noya said conflicts with detox, and I agree; women who are raped did not have the option of practicing safe-sex, or even the consent to have sex for that matter. How can they possibly be asked to bare a child and all the financial, emotional, and social aspects to entail? But then how can the line be drawn here? How can we know for sure that the woman is raped? There can be a situation where a woman is unintentionally impregnated (free of rape, etc), and the father refuses to take any responsibility, so she goes and reports she was raped by him.
So where is it possible to legally draw the line without any moral conflictions?
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Post by synical on Jun 24, 2008 22:48:15 GMT
its all about choices, if u want it, get it.. if u dont, dont get it... pro-choice But what of the idea of protecting life? A baby (even if a month old in a woman's womb) is still alive, whether she's showing or not. Should that life be taken for the mother/father's mistakes or bad decisions? I'm not trying to get personal or anything, but just say your girlfriend was pregnant with your child (and I mean a serious girlfriend) but she chose to get an abortion because it's "her" choice, and you were not consulted. Is that right? It IS her body, but the child doesn't only belong to her and isn't some property she can discard.
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Post by Alter on Jun 24, 2008 22:51:29 GMT
^Father was part of decision, he should be consulted.
Fathers should be tracked and forced to take responsability
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Post by ‘ J. Crow ’ on Jun 24, 2008 23:00:59 GMT
as long as they both agree,
wouldnt it be better than bringing in another person when u can barely support yourself ?
even with overpopulation n such
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Post by Alter on Jun 24, 2008 23:03:37 GMT
overpopulation my ass. More like just people allowing greedy companies to take the piss
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Post by ‘ J. Crow ’ on Jun 24, 2008 23:18:28 GMT
Felt that i should read up a little bit more on this to discuss it more, now that is a pro-choice site, so of course its going to support it, but doesnt it raise a decent point ?
if u outlaw abortion wouldnt that be anti choice ?
if they cant support it, their choice
hopefully for the better, whatever they decide
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Post by kirby on Jun 25, 2008 0:16:31 GMT
as long as they both agree, wouldnt it be better than bringing in another person when u can barely support yourself ? even with overpopulation n such ^Cosign It's proven fact that children with a "rougher" upbringing are more likely to end up with some sort of mental problem.. being anger, depression, whatever it is. I feel that, If a couple were unresponsible on a given night.. due to fufilling the need's they felt, they shouldnt be forced into that much responsibility as nothing more than a learning lesson. A baby is a big fuckin step, this aint no make believe world, it takes a lot to raise a child, and If you arnt financially, or even mentally prepared for it.. I think you have a right to get it taken care of and off'd in some sleezy clinic. And its not all that bad, Imagine forcing yourself into an abortion due to your own knowledge of your lack of support you could offer... or, going threw with it, and being forced to abandone it due to lack of financials. Plus, you could save a life by sparring a life... realizing your not in a state to parent a baby can cause for stem cells which could further help someone already living... I say why the hell not, if people cant fend for a family then go right ahead
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Post by Pair...uh...Noya? on Jun 25, 2008 0:51:11 GMT
On the rape tip, thats where we eventually lead to a legitimate moral dilemma, rape is impossible to actually prove. Legitimate sex can happen between any two people for any amount of reasons... Usually some of the more risque reasons lead to the whole "He said -- She said" game; where the rape card can be played, for blackmail.. or again, a slew of malicious reasons.
I really believe child birth from rape is consistent enough to allow pro-choice...
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Post by synical on Jun 25, 2008 1:37:33 GMT
as long as they both agree, wouldnt it be better than bringing in another person when u can barely support yourself ? even with overpopulation n such ^Cosign It's proven fact that children with a "rougher" upbringing are more likely to end up with some sort of mental problem.. being anger, depression, whatever it is. I feel that, If a couple were unresponsible on a given night.. due to fufilling the need's they felt, they shouldnt be forced into that much responsibility as nothing more than a learning lesson. A baby is a big fuckin step, this aint no make believe world, it takes a lot to raise a child, and If you arnt financially, or even mentally prepared for it.. I think you have a right to get it taken care of and off'd in some sleezy clinic. And its not all that bad, Imagine forcing yourself into an abortion due to your own knowledge of your lack of support you could offer... or, going threw with it, and being forced to abandone it due to lack of financials. Plus, you could save a life by sparring a life... realizing your not in a state to parent a baby can cause for stem cells which could further help someone already living... I say why the hell not, if people cant fend for a family then go right ahead Gotta disagree with you here my man. It's true that a rough upbringing takes a toll on a child, but you can't base the assumption that the child will grow into a life of crime. Yes, you're right that it's not fair to the couple, but the child shouldn't have to pay with it's life, should it? Even if the couple isn't prepared for such (and most people never really are), they can still even put the child for adoption and put the child in the hands of a family of their choice. Thats an option that would give the child a chance at a "better" life. Also, an abortion isn't free of it's own consequences. Studies show that women endure life-long emotional stresses after the abortion- mostly out of guilt for killing a child.
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Post by synical on Jun 25, 2008 1:39:02 GMT
On the rape tip, thats where we eventually lead to a legitimate moral dilemma, rape is impossible to actually prove. Legitimate sex can happen between any two people for any amount of reasons... Usually some of the more risque reasons lead to the whole "He said -- She said" game; where the rape card can be played, for blackmail.. or again, a slew of malicious reasons. I really believe child birth from rape is consistent enough to allow pro-choice... The rape position is what makes it so hard to find a solid ethical ground for abortion laws
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Post by synical on Jun 25, 2008 1:43:54 GMT
Felt that i should read up a little bit more on this to discuss it more, now that is a pro-choice site, so of course its going to support it, but doesnt it raise a decent point ? if u outlaw abortion wouldnt that be anti choice ? if they cant support it, their choice hopefully for the better, whatever they decide I'm sorry, but that site's too biased to be considered a legit source. Overpopulation is an issue, yes, but allowing abortions wont make a dent in overpopulation. Overpopulation is not the biggest threat, and it's DEFINITELY not the biggest environmental concern
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Post by Alter on Jun 25, 2008 11:18:04 GMT
How about frocing big firms to stop charging rediculous prices for bare necessities, giving more allowances to those with kids, and putting nice big taxes on the ridiculously wealthy. Tax huge cars, especially in america where y'all can all afford gas guzzling behemoths (We can't here - in fact in the area i live, theyre tryna introduce this)
shit like that would sort this "overpopulation"
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Post by kirby on Jun 25, 2008 15:20:14 GMT
^Cosign It's proven fact that children with a "rougher" upbringing are more likely to end up with some sort of mental problem.. being anger, depression, whatever it is. I feel that, If a couple were unresponsible on a given night.. due to fufilling the need's they felt, they shouldnt be forced into that much responsibility as nothing more than a learning lesson. A baby is a big fuckin step, this aint no make believe world, it takes a lot to raise a child, and If you arnt financially, or even mentally prepared for it.. I think you have a right to get it taken care of and off'd in some sleezy clinic. And its not all that bad, Imagine forcing yourself into an abortion due to your own knowledge of your lack of support you could offer... or, going threw with it, and being forced to abandone it due to lack of financials. Plus, you could save a life by sparring a life... realizing your not in a state to parent a baby can cause for stem cells which could further help someone already living... I say why the hell not, if people cant fend for a family then go right ahead Gotta disagree with you here my man. It's true that a rough upbringing takes a toll on a child, but you can't base the assumption that the child will grow into a life of crime. Yes, you're right that it's not fair to the couple, but the child shouldn't have to pay with it's life, should it? Even if the couple isn't prepared for such (and most people never really are), they can still even put the child for adoption and put the child in the hands of a family of their choice. Thats an option that would give the child a chance at a "better" life. Also, an abortion isn't free of it's own consequences. Studies show that women endure life-long emotional stresses after the abortion- mostly out of guilt for killing a child. Child pay with his life? I'm not sure if your aware, but at the time an abortion is given, the fetus is HARDLY a child.. its more of an embryo that's yet to be developed... it ISNT a person... adoption is just the same in my opinion, it's seeing that your in the middle of a problem, and finding urself a way out... adoption and abortion are more-or-less cousins. You tell me whats worse?, getting rid of the embryo of a baby you know you could not support... or, having the baby.. knowing you have a baby... and giving it up for adoption knowing that somewhere in the world someones fathering your baby. To me, abortions the top pick... Noone should be forced into parenting a child due to their lack of common sense,... it's not like punishing someone for breaking a window or something.. we're talking about a life... My beliefs on this topic will remain to stay the same if anyone feels that he/she and their partner are not fit to parent a child, then prior to the hassle of trying.. I would honestly suggest an abortion.
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Post by newsince on Jul 5, 2008 10:26:05 GMT
How about frocing big firms to stop charging rediculous prices for bare necessities, giving more allowances to those with kids, and putting nice big taxes on the ridiculously wealthy. Tax huge cars, especially in america where y'all can all afford gas guzzling behemoths (We can't here - in fact in the area i live, theyre tryna introduce this) shit like that would sort this "overpopulation" we can't afford gas.
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