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Post by Alter on Mar 8, 2009 5:02:44 GMT
So my girl was having a big meal for us on friday to celebreate Ghana independance day, waakye, fufu, rice, banku etc... big meal, and shit was bonkers.. But then the issue of th music comes up. Naturally I'm first up to put my ipod in early, and put on some crowd friendly tracks.. mainstream shit, so there's no complaints. Then the problem arises. My boy puts on some Fab, and I casually ask if dude likes Cassidy, Pap, Buddens etc.. and the rest of the dudes in the room turn on me for mentioning Joe. Naturally the convo moves to the subject of hip hop... and it happens. "Wayne is the greatest rapper alive". Now before we go off on that direction, this ain't another of those threads. I'm just saying, I ask what wayne has that makes him good.. and all cats say is flow. Literrally. I ask them even if they can remember the last track Wayne made with ANY content in it was and they (about 5 dudes) can't even think to say Hustlers Musik or somethin like that... they're drawing blanks. Anyways, discussion goes on and it's how Joe's wack because his career is apparently dead. Now i'm not even a big Budden fan, but when dudes base their entire opinion off "Pump it up" and they've heard NO other tracks of his... you can see my reason for frustration. Ignorance... I'm wondering... How the fuck do i get through to dudes who, while not hardcore riders, will say Wayne is the best because no1 flows like him.... yet agree flow is only part of what makes a rapper... agree that you can flow without making sense or saying shit... and listen to rick ross.... how do i talk to dudes who called Critical Madness vs Thesaurus wack.... yet Bashy vs. Ghetto (uk rappers, youtube it), a battle where only one emcee is battling and the other is spitting pre-writes... which has about 6 rounds, and no punchlines for the first 3 is better?
I mean shit baffles me. I play, Shad and they call that wack... but they're saying juelz is the shit... fair play to their opinion... but they jump to the decision after hearing the first few seconds of the "I don't really like to" beat... and can't explain what's good about Juelz... simply that he's "sick"....
Serious... any ideas?
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Post by kevy_boii on Mar 8, 2009 15:40:52 GMT
Im A Young Millionaire Tougher Than Nigerian Hair? Yea Waynes Dope..Ha
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Post by Alter on Mar 8, 2009 17:18:07 GMT
@kev - Clearly you've never felt nigerian hair lololol
@krazie - lmao @ get laid. Why is that always people's response to whenever someone else doesn't like what they like? For the record I've heard ALL of the carter series, and a few other wayne mixtapes, I don't form an opinion on an artist till i hear all their "best" songs that people reccomend, and their "best" album at least. As well as their "popular" tracks. The problem I have with Wayne is he's knowledgeable and smart, but also completly a fucktarded idiot. Real talk, how you gonna go through uni doing a decent course and come out so fucking retarded? But that's him as a person. Personally, his flow/voice/swagger are all wack imo, they're boring and hard on my ears, and could easily be replaced by any other generic flow and sound as "good". That said there's one or too tracks that his whiney voice is suited to, like that game one where he does the hook. Continuing, any artist that REQUIRES another mainstream artist or rnb singer on a track for it to be considered decent, or to get plays is wack. Standardly. The fact is wayne is one dimensional as fuck, he only does things that others have done before him and sit him in his pidgeonhole. there's a song i heard long before lollipop that used the exact same concept, and the same can be said for almost every one of his songs i've heard. this whole "omd lil wayne's doing rock" is bullshit because it's basically him as a businessman seeing that it's now profitable to exploit the growing crossover between rock and rap in the mainstream that has long existed in skate circles, backpacker cliques etc. fact is he didn't do it till it was safe. 90% of his creativity seems also to stem from being a fucking retard and saying things that is so contrived that i can be twisted to being seen as clever. I won't lie, he can come with some alright punchlines, but so what. what seperates him from the artists i like is that they're just being spat for the sake of it most of the time. he could write 300 punchlines, and then simply mix and match on a beat, and that's just lame to me. you can sit me in a room, and ill make a punch about every object in there, using his basic ass similie/metaphor style, and bang, throw in some ad libs and relate it to being rich/eating pussy and it's a fresh wayne track
anyways, back on track.
Shad @ a party, yes, i wasn't implying that, i simply bumped it when we started talking hip hop. the whole arguement stemmed from me mentioning budden and fab in the same sentence. anyways, i actually like fab, but classing him as one of the best alive is a bit far.
Plus i'm asking how do i relate to that closed minded a person
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Post by «Kü®bẕẕ» on Mar 8, 2009 17:24:54 GMT
Making ur font smaller wont stop us from realizing your post is about 500 words too long^
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Post by LostMoniker on Mar 8, 2009 18:05:26 GMT
Again. I don't understand how people say Lil Wayne is so dope with punches and his "wordplay", he's spitting shit that looks amateur in comparison to dope battle emcees like Vinnie Paz or anyone in Rhyme Asylum.
I will say this, Lil wayne is a mediocre battle rapper who slacks on content most of the time, and somehow maintains a following because his listeners haven't heard enough of other rappers to know any better.
Onto the main meat of this discussion now:
Again, there is a certain condition in which listeners become stuck in where the only "good" stuff is the stuff that is either "accepted" or "what they enjoy". I could type up several paragraph explaining, but to get to the center of it, in my earlier days as a Hip Hop head I was focused more on dope beats and flow with the occasional nice line hitting and I'd become impressed. However, as I started digging into tons of artists and becoming obsessed with trying to understand what they're considered dope, I learned what was genius about some artists and what wasn't about others.
What I'm getting at is, the average so-called fan of Hip Hop really can't assess what makes a song work or not, only the hype surrounding the track and the "appeal" of whatever culture it's representing (so gangster rap, or nerd rap, etc.). It's interesting to view the listening base of whatever artist you enjoy, you view Shads listeners and I'll say apart from the local scene that follows him a lot of his listeners I could say really have a sense of the Hip hop culture as a whole. But outsiders look at him differently, and a lot of people I know only like his Brother Watching track because of the beat, not the lyrical content. On a different side of things, artists like Cormega appeal to the hardcore hip hop audiences, and a person like him will generally get respect from the so called fans of "gangster rap" because he has that appeal, but Cormega also gets respect from people who know Hip Hop because he has genius lyrical content.
It's all conditioning of how you listen to your music. Many people simply listen to rap tracks because that's what's socially accepted of them, and because they feel somehow empowered to listen to "gangster" music.
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Post by Alter on Mar 8, 2009 18:25:09 GMT
That's the thing see, i'll LISTEN to anything.. Shit I LISTEN to wayne and rick ross from time to time if that's what i'm in the mood for, but i don't necessarily LIKE the artist, or consider them GOOD. I love "I'm on a boat" but as rappers, the dudes are WACK. They're GOOD at comedy yeah, but not as rappers. Just like I'd consider NaS far better than Fab etc... but I'd consider Fab a better PUNCHLINE artist... people can't seem to let go of their personal tastes when judging the quality of something. NaS is amongst my favourite artists, but thtere are plenty of other cats a LOT better than him in certain areas... shit's annoying
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Post by kaluluwa on Mar 8, 2009 23:51:08 GMT
they feel somehow empowered to listen to "gangster" music. i KNOW you've done enough digging to know that the gangsta rap movement was socially empowering (while at the same time... retrograde, but isn't hip hop as a whole in the same boat?) look at death certificate mang. now that i'm done with my obligatory rebuttal to a single line of moniker's argument, on to the original discussion: alter, why're you so worried about what other people listen to? you're sounding a bit close minded yourself. people have different musical tastes, and that's how it's going to be. you can't force feed that to someone. i'm sure you've heard the cliche, "music is close to the soul" or something along those lines. YOU'RE KILLIN DA SOUL BROTHER!
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Post by Alter on Mar 9, 2009 0:04:05 GMT
^Fair point but it's simply the fact that they're jumping to conclusions and forming opinions without even taking into account the fact they ain't listened to the music. And not so much they aren't fans or hate cats i'm feeling, thats' 100 percent legit to me. it's that they are saying that they are wack, they suck simply because they don't like them.
Opinion =/= fact
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Post by LostMoniker on Mar 9, 2009 0:12:47 GMT
they feel somehow empowered to listen to "gangster" music. i KNOW you've done enough digging to know that the gangsta rap movement was socially empowering (while at the same time... retrograde, but isn't hip hop as a whole in the same boat?) Of course, but you're taking my words out of context good sir. I'm implying there's a sort of mentality going towards a gangster lifestyle that youths that aren't in the same circumstances tend to push. Also, If I'm reading right, we're definitely talking about different eras there's quite a difference between the original style of gangster rap and the new school stuff.
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Post by kaluluwa on Mar 9, 2009 0:18:42 GMT
@ moniker: right. i thought that's what the strategically placed quotes might have meant. my mistake.
@ alter: so what you're saying is, you have a problem with people not liking an artist cause they don't like the artist?!!?
nah. i think i know what you were getting at. however, your own "facts" on the rappinz are still just opinion (within reason of course)
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Post by Alter on Mar 9, 2009 0:26:12 GMT
^Ah the discussion is getting good. Truth on that. What i define as wack is based on my own criteria... but the lack of using any criteria places it 100% on opinion pretty much. Use of "impartial" criteria, I feel, opens it up to more intelligent and fair discussion and assesment, wouldn't you agree?
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Post by krstwo on Mar 9, 2009 0:26:35 GMT
i take back all my former comments..... lil wayne is pretty fuckin shitty....
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Post by SOL DA SUPA NOVA on Mar 9, 2009 0:32:58 GMT
i take back all my former comments..... lil wayne is pretty fuckin shitty.... PPPPPFFFF.... dogg, u should really change your name to KONTRADICTORIAL KRAZIE... loooll...
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Post by krstwo on Mar 9, 2009 0:41:31 GMT
i take back all my former comments..... lil wayne is pretty fuckin shitty.... PPPPPFFFF.... dogg, u should really change your name to KONTRADICTORIAL KRAZIE... loooll... and you should change your name to " I GOT KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT BY KRAZIE" cause thats what the votes'll read
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Post by kaluluwa on Mar 9, 2009 0:49:35 GMT
@ kraze: never give up hope! hustler muzik will always have a place in my iPod. Alter: to some degree it would. to accomplish that, however, everyone would have to agree on it, and there are some aspects that people find more important than others. also, people differ in there views on what constitutes an A+ in an aspect as opposed to a C-. furthermore, you mentioned earlier that your friend shut out the music as soon as he didn't like the beat. as close minded as that might seem, he's in the right. don't forget that this is music, and you need the musical aspect. since most rappers aren't quite spoken word artists who can LEGITIMATELY go acapella, the beat goes along way in advancing their catalog, and a bad beat goes even further in ruining it. in terms of good music as opposed to good hip hop, the criteria one might put forth (punchlines, content, wordplay, etc.) wouldn't even cross the mind of some people. take for instance, someone who's main musical taste falls in bebop, prog rock, classical, or another heavily-instrument oriented genre. if there were an undisputed GOAT rapper, even he couldn't get that someone to listen if there's a backing instrumental that they don't like. my basic point is, all of this is too subjective.
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Post by Alter on Mar 9, 2009 1:04:43 GMT
^Very legit, and yeah i feel you, but the discussion was on "best emcees/good emcees", therefore judging on the beat only judges the artist on what they like to flow on, does it not?
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Post by —»Ph€N¤M«— on Mar 9, 2009 16:54:19 GMT
@kev - Clearly you've never felt nigerian hair lololol -.- I Never Got That Punchline.. I Have Nigerian Hair & I Got Some Sexy Ass Waves & Sexy Curly Hair When I Comb It Out.. I Never Saw The Punchline Through That Perspective.. This Is Wat I Hear..
"Im A Young Millionaire Tougher Than Nigerian HEIR!!" ..Wayne Does Spit Deep Shit Sometimes.. Ppl Just To Biased Or Clouded By Hate 2 See Em Sometimes.. You Cant Listen 2 Him With Hate In Ya Blood Cuz U Wont Enjoy It
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Post by —»Ph€N¤M«— on Mar 9, 2009 17:01:12 GMT
&& Wayne Is Ill.. Not All The Time I Listen 2 Rappers For How Dope They Are.. I Listen Just 2 Enjoy The Music.. If Ppl Always Listen 4 How Good They Is They Might 4Get 2 Enjoy Tha Music.. I Heard Some ILL Trackz B4.. Like The Lyriscm Is Bannas.. But Like I'll Listen 2 It A Few Times.. Acknowlege It 4 Bein Dope But I Might Really Enjoy It Nah Mean? Like If Tha Beat Aint Dope And Im Tryna Get Amped Up I Really Aint Tryna Hear It Even If The Lyrics Is Ill.. Just Enjoy Tha Music
For Tha Record.... Wayne Is Dope:) & JOE BUDDEN IS THA ILLEST!! Dont Care Wat ANYBODY Sayz! Nothin Can Change My Opinion.. Joe Budden Is The Greatest Thing 2 Happen 2 Hip Hop -.- ..Never Heard A Rapper Spit Realer Shit.. Soul Mood Music Is Tha Shit!
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Post by Alter on Mar 9, 2009 19:15:00 GMT
Phen i need you to hook me up with some live budden tracks to show dudes for real. the type fabolous fans will feel. that kinda breathe shit or somethin like the intro on nothin to somethin. real punchlline tracks
and see you have the right perspective. maybe i do listen to much to how good/talented they are, not how much the song is enjoyable, but thats just what i like. i do listen to some artists i even think are wack cause i like a song or i'm feeling it for whatever mood I'm in. But for me, like i said, it's important to be able to differentiate between what's GOOD and what YOU LIKE, as yoou mentioned.
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Post by QualityHD on Mar 10, 2009 23:51:11 GMT
Lil wayne is not the best rapper alive, he self proclaims that, and yes, I like lil wayne 'cause of his flow, no one flows like him xD and he's smooth and says alot of shit, listen to First Place Winner (Produced By Swizz Beats)
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